Steve Forbes, 77, the grandson of the founder of the Forbes brand and the current editor-in-chief of Forbes U.S., is a longtime advocate of economic freedom and a supporter of the Republican Party. What does he think about the current situation in global politics and the world economy? And what advice does he offer Ukraine to become a successful country? An interview.
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Forbes Ukraine is five years old. Itʼs a great occasion to talk to the grandson of the founder of the Forbes brand and current editor-in-chief of Forbes US, Steve Forbes.
In addition to media, 77-year-old Steve Forbes is an economist — he has authored and co-authored more than 20 books, and a politician — having run for the Republican presidential nomination in 1996 and 2000.
How does he see the recipe for Ukrainian growth? Forbes Ukraine contributor Petro Chernyshov and editor Tetiana Pavlushenko talk to Forbes about this.
The conversation has been shortened and edited for clarity.
In your book «The Freedom Manifesto: Why Free Markets Are Moral and Government Is Not» you emphasize the importance of economic freedom. Where did the U.S. shift from a free to a more regulated economy?
The move away from free trade is an anomaly. Since World War II, countries have worked on reducing trade barriers. The global trade growth after 1945 made the world better, unlike the 1930s, when protectionist sentiments dominated.
I believe tariff policies are temporary because taxes harm business, and tariffs disrupt supply chains. This is an anomaly, not a new normal. Adam Smith taught that a mutually beneficial deal for both sides is not a zero-sum game, and countries that support free trade prosper more.
This period will pass, and in the real world, it will become clear that reducing barriers, taxes, and regulations is better. We will have to rethink some of the lessons.
Is globalization retreating, or is it just transforming?
We live in a globalized world, and while patterns are changing, the principle of open markets and the ability to create efficient supply chains remains unchanged.
We will find new ways to adapt to changes in international relations, especially with the Chinese market. For prosperity, large markets are essential. In the 19th century, the U.S. had a vast free trade zone between states, but now we have «outgrown» that market. The more we trade with other countries, the more opportunities there are for new products, services, supply chains, and technological breakthroughs.
Already, we see the beginnings of this with the development of artificial intelligence, which promises significant productivity growth. For example, it used to cost $3 billion and take 10-15 years to approve a new drug in the U.S., but AI could shorten this process to a few months.
Steve Forbes, 77, editor-in-chief of Forbes US and grandson of Forbes brand founder Bertie Forbes.
Why did the world shift away from open markets, and how soon will we return to global development?
This period will be tough. We will see that it is better not to have taxes than to impose them, and chaos does not lead to prosperity. It may take several years, but similar moments have occurred in history. In the 1970s, the U.S. experienced decades of inflation and decline, but after Reaganʼs reforms, the country returned to prosperity.
Unfortunately, some lessons were not learned. One reason for todayʼs political unrest is that elites failed to meet their commitments to global security and stable currencies. Money must be a stable measure of value, like a clock with consistent 60 minutes.
We also fell into regulatory irrationality regarding climate. Now we realize that large expenditures on wind turbines and solar panels cannot replace natural gas.
Can you provide a few of the most absurd regulations in the U.S.?
An example from an apple orchard in New York: it has 5,000 rules and regulations from 17 programs. One of them requires covering apples picked from trees with a tarp during transport to storage to protect them from bird droppings. But the apples have been hanging on trees for 15 months and are washed in storage. These are absurd regulations.
A nonsensical regulation is changing the way pizza is made in New York due to emissions. But for a pizzeria to produce as many emissions as a private jet in a year, it would take 849 years.
These regulations cost the U.S. economy up to $2.5 trillion. Elon Musk and his team, whom I call «muskovites,» are actively eliminating absurd regulations. In manufacturing, the situation is even worse: regulations cost businesses an average of $25,000 per employee, while taxes are only $5,000. It’s no wonder manufacturers have problems.
There are more and more rules everywhere. Recently, President Donald Trump loosened restrictions on water flow from American showerheads.
Showers, washing machines, and dishwashers are regulated in the United States for crazy reasons…
Democratization and the abolition of excessive regulations should be the basis for future economic growth in the United States. We need to stop spending money on alternative energy sources that are not only more expensive but also more harmful to the environment than natural gas or nuclear energy. For example, wind turbines produce more plastic waste than the plastic tubes they were trying to get rid of.
Europe is very regulated. This is explained by consumer protection. How to find balance?
Unfortunately, in the EU, bureaucracy often requires nothing to be done until it’s proven to be absolutely safe. This stifles innovation. If the EU had to approve cars for use 120 years ago, it wouldnʼt have happened due to concerns about accidents and fuel costs. In the U.S., however, innovation is allowed, and laws are changed according to circumstances. For example, the creation of Xerox copying technology led to changes in copyright laws in the 1960s.
The difference between us and people from the Stone Age is knowledge. Higher standards of living arise from the creation of new knowledge, whether in a laboratory or in the market.
Take the story of Margaret Rudkin. Her child had an allergy to white bread. So, she started experimenting in her kitchen and invented whole-grain bread. In 1937, she founded Pepperidge Farm Bakery, which released Goldfish cookies and crackers. She built this great business and sold it to Campbell’s.
Rudkin’s success wasn’t the result of economic planning; it was an experiment. This is the entrepreneurial spirit that fuels innovation. Or, for example, Amadeo Pietro Giannini, who revolutionized the banking system, or Norman Borlaug, who started the Green Revolution (Nobel Peace Prize laureate in 1970).
In the U.S., everyone has the opportunity to try new ideas, and when they succeed, everyone benefits.
Steve Forbes is an economist and a champion of the free market and a longtime advocate of economic freedom. He is the author of 22 books.
We are closely following the reforms of President Javier Milei in Argentina. Do you think «tough medicine» is necessary for stabilizing the economy?
President Milei is not going too far with reforms — they are radical but necessary. However, he has not replaced the peso with the dollar or closed the central bank, which is the source of waste, as he promised during the campaign. That would have been a key step to stop inflation growth in the country. For example, Ecuador and El Salvador have already dollarized, and it worked.
Milei must also do this and implement other reforms to restore Argentina’s prosperity, which was once one of the richest countries in the world.
Are there any of Milei’s decisions that could be useful for Ukraine?
To create a peaceful economy, it is important to reduce the size of government bureaucracies and simplify regulations. Attention should be given to how and how difficult it is to create a business in the country, communicate with entrepreneurs, and remove barriers.
Trump and the Ukrainian issue
You have long supported the Republican Party. Do you consider Trumpʼs current economic policy effective?
I have always supported Trump’s good policies and criticized those I disagreed with. He quickly took control of the border after 10 million illegal immigrants entered the U.S., something Joe Biden didn’t do in four years. His appointment of Musk for deregulation and budget cuts was successful — $150 billion in overspending has already been found.
We are now working on a new tax relief bill, as many of the ones Trump introduced in 2017 are expiring this year.
Tariffs are a form of taxation. I hope the uncertainty around them will end soon, and we can refocus on clear rules.
I also think Trump should provide more weapons for Ukraine and act decisively to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear state.
What are the biggest economic mistakes you see in the U.S. policy regarding China?
We are currently in a real trade war with China. I hope that over time tariffs will be applied more selectively, not generally. China steals our intellectual property and conducts cyberattacks on U.S. infrastructure. I would like the Pentagon to have countermeasures for such cases. China should know that it will pay a price for bad actions.
Beijing wants to control international waters, starting with the South and East China Seas, and is actively interfering in the situation in Ukraine and the Middle East. We have to solve these problems one by one, restoring the American military, especially using shipbuilding yards in South Korea and Japan.
Trump should supply more weapons to Ukraine and act decisively to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear state, says Steve Forbes. Фото Getty Images
What could Ukraine’s reaction be in the context of trade wars?
Ukraine must reduce trade barriers. As the example of Switzerland shows, prosperity does not necessarily require membership in blocks like the EU. After the war, Ukraine could become a gateway for companies, taking the example of Switzerland or Singapore. Look at Slovakia, which became a powerful car manufacturer in Europe.
Your advice to Ukrainian entrepreneurs on how to succeed globally?
Ukraine’s future depends on a peaceful settlement of the war. After that, Ukraine should look to the examples of Hong Kong, Singapore, and Switzerland, creating an open economy. It is important to make starting a business easier, like in New Zealand, with low taxes and reducing social contributions.
Ukraine should tie its currency to a stable currency — either the euro or the dollar, as the Baltic States did. It’s important to have low taxes, a stable currency, and a government that doesn’t spend too much. Lessons from Poland and Singapore show that Ukraine can become a high-tech and financial center.
In 2023, you said that if the world loses Ukraine, it could lead to a global catastrophe. Do you still believe this?
Ukraine is critical to global security, like Czechoslovakia in 1938. We must not repeat the mistake made by Great Britain and France with Czechoslovakia, which led to World War II. That’s why we must do much more to support Ukraine in its fight against invaders. I propose a new slogan: Make Ukraine Great Again.
Currently, there is a discussion in Ukraine about openness to labor migration. It’s about allowing citizens of countries with a higher GDP per capita to automatically get the right to reside and work in Ukraine. Is this a viable solution?
This should be done individually, but it is important for Ukraine to become a place where ambitious people want to come because of the opportunities. We must avoid the mistakes of Europe, like in 2015 when Angela Merkel allowed open migration without controlling who comes and their skills.
We need smart policies to attract skilled labor. Also, attention should be paid to Ukrainians abroad — they could become an important resource if they see the country developing and want to return. This can stimulate internal migration and investment in Ukraine.
It is important for Ukraine to avoid Europe's mistakes, like in 2015, when Angela Merkel allowed open migration without controlling who comes and what skills they have. Фото Getty Images
Give two pieces of advice to President Trump.
Let’s start with the economy and tariffs: when it comes to large tax breaks, it’s important to maintain their effectiveness.
Regarding Ukraine and Iran: With Ukraine, Putin reacts only to strength. The U.S. has thousands of A-10 Warthog attack planes, and Ukraine needs hundreds of them. To make Putin understand that he will start losing, not winning. Only strength on the battlefield works; words won’t cut it here. Putin will say anything to seduce you, as he tries to do with Trump’s envoy Steve Witkoff.
We must act firmly with both Iran and Putin because only with strength can real deals be made. Words don’t matter much, we’ve seen this time and time again.
The new media world
What is Forbesʼ role in the age of TikTok, YouTube, and bloggers? What added value should we, journalists, bring to our readers and viewers?
The main thing is to provide reliable information. People are looking for credible sources. When we transitioned from print to online, we realized that people want reliable brands they can trust. The internet often turns everything into a commodity, so if you donʼt have something unique and useful, people will go elsewhere.
We experiment with different ways of distributing information. For example, we hold traditional events like the «30 Under 30» «50 Over 50» conferences, and numerous offline events. This is old-fashioned but an effective way to engage. People are social beings.
What is the current mission of global Forbes? Who is the publication for and about?
Our mission is to provide entrepreneurs and people who want to improve their lives with the information and analytics they need to grow. This means gathering and presenting information correctly and finding successful people who can serve as examples.
We are like critics of theatrical productions: we cheer when something is done well, but we don’t hesitate to criticize when necessary. Our goal is to serve those who strive for success. That’s why the Forbes brand is known worldwide — we inspire people to reach better.
When you remember your purpose, youʼre less worried when the means to achieve it change. Therefore, it’s important to remember why we are here: to make the world better by providing people who want success with opportunities to achieve it.
The main role of Forbes is to provide reliable information. Фото Getty Images
Three life hacks from Steve Forbes: How to keep a clear head in today’s crazy world?
The world always seems meaningless during changes—whether itʼs the advent of railroads, the invention of personal computers, or AI. However, chaos begins only when leaders forget the basic principles. Some principles remain unchanged, but we often ignore them, like in the 1930s, 1970s, and today.
The key is to return to these basics and move forward, remembering that we donʼt always control events; sometimes, events control us.
For young people, itʼs especially important to understand that you donʼt come into the world already formed. A bright example is Steve Jobs. If you took his personal qualities as a young man, without his name, and showed them to a recruiter, they would immediately say no. He insulted people, stole ideas, and was a bad manager, which is why he was even fired from Apple.
But eventually, he learned to be an effective and inspiring leader. When he returned to Apple, which was on the brink of collapse, he created a powerful company.
In life, things are not always easy and smooth, but itʼs important to move forward. It’s like riding a bicycle: if you don’t pedal, you’ll fall.
The article was published in Forbes Ukraine #2 [35], April-May 2025.
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